eCommerce Made Easy - Growing your Online Business

From Idea to Income: Building Sales Funnels That Work with Shannon Gaither

• Carrie Saunders • Episode 107

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If the words 'sales funnel' make you want to hide under your desk, this episode is for you. Whether you’re stuck on what to sell, overwhelmed by the tech, or just tired of spinning your wheels, today’s guest Shannon Gaither is here to simplify the entire process. She’s breaking down how to go from idea to income with a sales funnel that’s simple, sustainable, and actually works—even if you don’t have a team or a tech background. This is the clarity and confidence boost every online business owner needs.


Connect with Shannon Gaither

Instagram: @shannongaithercreative

Website: https://www.shannongaither.com/

Shannon's Free Guide "100 Digital Products You Can Create & Sell Today": https://www.shannongaither.com/100


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Carrie Saunders:

If the words sales funnel makes you hide under your desk, this episode is for you. Whether you're stuck on what to sell, overwhelmed by tech or just tired of spinning your wheels, today's guest speaker, shannon Gaither, is here to simplify the entire process. She's breaking down how to go from idea to income with a sales funnel that's simple, sustainable and actually works, even if you don't have a team or tech background. This is the clarity and confidence boost that every online business owner needs and that I wish I had early on. So let's dive in. Welcome to the e-commerce made easy podcast. I'm your host, k Saunders.

Carrie Saunders:

When we started this business, all I had was a couch, a laptop and a nine monthmonth-old. My main goal To help others. Now, with over 20 years in the e-commerce building industry, and even more than that in web development, I have seen a lot. I love breaking down the hard tech into easily understandable bits to help others be successful in their online business. Whether you're a seasoned e-commerce veteran or just starting out, you've come to the right place, so sit back, relax and let's dive into the world of e-commerce together.

Carrie Saunders:

Welcome back to the show. Today, we have a special guest with us, and her name is Shannon Gaither, and she is a sales and marketing strategist who helps online business owners build simple sales funnels through her coaching and signature course Sales Funnel Lab. She's all about turning ideas into income without the tech overwhelm, and she is a joy to talk to. She and I are both tech people, and I always have a great conversation with Shannon. So welcome Shannon to the show. Thank you, I'm so glad to be here. So, shannon, tell us a little bit more about you and who you are, and what's your fun hobbies to do, too, besides all the tech things you do.

Shannon Gaither:

Well it's, I have twins. I have 13 year old twins, boy girl. They keep me pretty busy and gardening is my go to hobby, for sure. And I'm vegetable gardener, love vegetable gardening. I've been doing it for a lot of years and that's my main. I'd say that's my main hobby, other than just constantly organizing things in my home.

Carrie Saunders:

So tell us a little bit more about your your sales funnel business and your how you help other businesses too.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, I like to take the guesswork out of what to sell and how to sell it, and I do that through coaching and my course, as you mentioned, sales Funnel Lab and I've been doing it for I don't know. I went from, let's see, about five years ago. I switched to coaching and built my first course about four years ago Systems for Success and I love systems and that just comes naturally to me. And it took a little while to warm up to realizing that all my business had turned into a funnel business Like it had, just without really realizing it. That's what I had ended up. That's what I've been doing.

Shannon Gaither:

I met with a coach and she was like what exactly is your transformation, what do you help people with? And we kept drilling into it and I was like over and over with a coach and she was like what exactly is your transformation? What do you help people with? And we kept drilling into it and I was like, over and over and over again, it was like I build offers. I help people build offers, figure out how to launch them into the world and how to position them and how to optimize, and so it's just evolved into that business and I absolutely love it because it often is the differentiator between somebody making enough money in their business to validate their business, to make sure that it is, you know, continuing to be something that they should be putting their time and effort into.

Shannon Gaither:

And I see a lot of people stop at a certain point and kind of cap off and find that they have tech challenges or just strategy challenges. They don't know where to where to focus their energy next and um, and it stops them from really getting the business that they can they deem successful, you know, and um, without that they're, they're they're liable to give up on their business if they get burnout or um, or just you know, they might just not make enough money to for it to work, for it to make sense for them. And so I love seeing somebody go from that place to successful and making money and really bringing it in and in a way that gives them the opportunity to build the lifestyle that they want for their own family and themselves.

Carrie Saunders:

Have opportunity to build the lifestyle that they want for their own family and themselves. And I've witnessed you do this before too with some business people. I know, some business friends I know, and it's just so wonderful to see how you work with them and the transformation you give them and really how much you care and to make sure that you're similar to me in our business and that you're invested in their business and you want to make sure that they are, you know, seeing success and really making that next stride, and so I think that's kind of why we're a little bit of a kindred spirit here, because we both love to just see the success in our clients and it really shows what you do.

Shannon Gaither:

Thank you for saying that. I do feel like it is their success is my success. That's literally. It's so tied. There's no way. It's not, it's just. You know, that's literally what I live for and I think that it's really fun and exciting to see somebody have that click happen and make that move. That really is the differentiator in their business. It's cool.

Carrie Saunders:

Makes sense. So, for those listening and they're wanting to build like a sales funnel, what are some of the common misconceptions about sales funnel among the early stage online entrepreneurs? What are they not knowing or missing, or along those lines?

Shannon Gaither:

Let's say that one of the biggest misconceptions is they need a. They think they need a huge audience or they need to come really complicated tech to have a funnel that works, and you really don't. I mean I've had clients start with a free checklist or a simple thank you page or that has an offer on it or a three-page email sequence that makes their first sale, and it really doesn't have to be super complicated. And I'd say another misconception would be thinking you have to build out like an entire course or challenge or boot camp or a membership before you start selling, and that's putting the cart before the horse. I think sometimes you need to pre-sell or launch a beta before you you launch something big or put your time into something large, because you need to get proof of concept first.

Shannon Gaither:

So, like I've had a client launch a four-week workshop that was about with just like a basic, basic sales page, literally had a few button bullets on it about what she was teaching and it sold out. So it really doesn't have to be overly complicated, but I think a lot of folks think it should be. And then, um, the last thing I'd say is a misconception that comes right to mind is that people think it's it, it, um, funnels are cold and pushy, and but the best funnels are cold and pushy, but the best funnels are really should feel like a conversation. It should be like someone's opting into your freebie and then they read your story in an email that you send in response to that or delivery, and then they're like, wow, she's been where I am. You know the good sales funnels are not spammy, they're supportive. So I'd say those are the big misconceptions.

Carrie Saunders:

Well, and I think that makes a lot of sense, because I know that the sales funnels that I am attracted to are the ones that are that are like that. They're they're simpler, they're more friendly. I feel like I am having a conversation with the person. So I love how you help people see that, because it's so easy for us, as entrepreneurs, to over complicate what we're doing and I'm talking to myself too, because I do this as well and I sometimes have to be like wait a minute, carrie, we need to back up and make this a little simpler. You know, try it out, prove a concept, things like that.

Carrie Saunders:

So I love that you help the clients, you know, see that, and you're not. I feel like that's showing that you're not taking advantage of them as a client. You're truly, you know, walking side by side and and helping them. See, you know, we can do this easy and get some sales and get some momentum and some really encouragement and more self-confidence when we do make those you know, little sails along the way as we're building, whatever the thing is, and it helps us, you know, have that confidence to keep going and know that we're in the right direction and finish. What's in our brain is the bigger, more perfection part of it. But we're making those many steps along the way because done is better than perfect, for sure.

Shannon Gaither:

Done is better than perfect Absolutely. And you can spend a lot of time, just like you can build a website, and you can spend a lot of time doing your branding and your website and building all that out and then not actually selling anything for a while, and then you're like I should have been selling first, I should have sold first and then built those things out. You know, and same thing happens with a lot of course, creators and membership people they, they go to launch and they don't really have, they haven't been building their audience or they haven't been warming people up and you know it's, it's um, it's always more rewarding when you have that validation first, when you, you know you've got the validation, you know to put your where, to put your energy, it's way better.

Carrie Saunders:

For sure, for sure. So then, if somebody is wanting to do something like this, how can a business owner identify and validate a profitable offer before, like, building out the funnel and before doing all the bigger things behind it?

Shannon Gaither:

I'd start with paying attention to what people are asking you for. I'd start with paying attention to what people are asking you for. So, like, if you're a mindset coach and people are asking you, I'm, I'm, you know, if people keep saying like I know what I should be doing but I'm not consistent at it, then that could be a sign for you to make something like a 30 day accountability plan, you know and? Or? Or like a a daily reset routine or some mindset reset routine or something like that. You know, just, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, just package your support around the need that they're expressing. So build something around what you hear them talking about, they need, if you can.

Shannon Gaither:

And then also, validation doesn't have to be super fancy. It can be like you could post a poll on your Instagram saying something like if I offered a quick training on on this topic, would you be into it? And if you get replies or DMS, then there's your green light. You know you could also try a mini version of your idea. I love the love of getting people to make like a small offer. Like, for example, if you're you want to create a big course, before you do that, you build, you host a 90 minute workshop like a paid workshop. My one of my clients did that who? She did a $37 workshop for accounting basics for tax pros and she totally validated her offer and that people were willing to pay and she turned it into a bigger product.

Carrie Saunders:

So I love that and I feel like that that's something we sometimes don't give permission to ourselves to even do. Yes, so I love that you give them that permission, and sometimes we need to hear it more than once too, because the other day I was actually talking to somebody and we're at the time of this recording, we're running some webinars. Well, she was like, well, are you going to, like, save it and record it and sell it later? Well, I hadn't even considered it, you know, I hadn't considered what I was teaching and it as being like a little mini workshop of some sort. So sometimes we just need a partner like like you, shannon, that, can, you know, take a look back, look, you know, an outside, look at something to see, well, what are these little mini offers we could do to, to build building blocks to that bigger offer we want to have?

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, absolutely Absolutely. And I think sometimes, when we're into our business kind of deep, we also think we don't need to validate. That also happens. It doesn't just happen to new timers or newcomers or whatever, it can also happen to those vets because you don't think you have to validate, because your audience says something. Well, how many people in your audience said that? You know, was it just one person? Was it one student or one customer who said that? Because you might be building an offer around that? One person. So it's take that, take a few minutes and validate it, you know.

Carrie Saunders:

That's a very, very good point.

Shannon Gaither:

It's a whole section of my course is validation and I go all into all these validation techniques and yeah, it's such an important it can't be underestimated. My first course I did not validate very well and I don't think the messaging hit because I didn't validate well and I think that it's such an underestimated part of building out sales offers.

Carrie Saunders:

And I think that some people might be a little bit scared to validate. But it's better to validate ahead of time and then put the course out there and then get, because you might your, your big idea might be mostly on point but you just need to shift it just a tiny bit and that validation steps as you go to it helps you shift it that tiny bit to really land the target a bit better.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, yes, when I was building out the, when I was validating my lap, the course I just recently built and what I did was I did validation calls with folks and I recorded the calls. I took the transcript. I used Fathom and I took the transcript into ChatGPT and had it extract out all the pain points they said and all the recommendations they said and all the things that they said that they needed to have in a course for it to make sense for them and it and I used it on my sales page. I used those wording on myself and I felt like that was changed. Everything for me that changed the game the fact that we have ai. We can take the validation and really like turn it into something that benefits us in a way that's a little bit faster than we used to. We used to validate right.

Carrie Saunders:

Right, that's a very smart move to do that that way. So then, for those that are listening and they want to build a simple yet as effective sales funnel, what are some of those essential components that you need on one of those you know? First, simple, effective sales funnels that you have.

Shannon Gaither:

Well, let's see. First thing I would think that comes to mind is super clear messaging Messaging that spells out exactly what someone's going to walk away with and ideally when, even because sometimes people say things like you know, their type of business is online business coaching. Well, instead of saying that, maybe say something like book your first three clients in 30 days, that tells me what I'm getting and how long it'll take. And I feel like that builds that clarity, builds trust faster and helps people self-identify, which is super important and allows them to just, you know, quickly say yes, because they've they've connected that that offers for them and they know the how long it'll take and they can see how much it is and what the outcome is, and so it's just all laid out for them in a way that if you're, if you say things like online business coaching, they're like that could mean a million things to a million different people. We all have. You know, if you've ever heard of a business coach, you know that they all think slightly different, you know.

Carrie Saunders:

Yeah, and that's a really good point, cause we talk a lot on the podcast about being clear and not clever with our messaging on our websites and with our call to action. So you know, our offer messaging needs to be very clear, just like the example you gave us. I mean, it's very clear what that outcome is, and talking to the benefits rather than the features is something else I'm sure you help your clients do on their funnels too, right?

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, oh, it's all about transformation. Because people buy transformation. They buy the end result of what they're, and often it is not the price that sways them. It is the transformation that they're going to accomplish that sways them more than price. You know that's a misnomer in a lot of ways, because I think we'll come up with the money if the transformation is worth it for us. So other things that people can do that are essential components. Let me think people can do that are essential components. Let me think Another one I would say is your lead magnet is often something that people will build first, but it's something that you should consider building after your offer if possible, or review and see if you can tweak it, because, because your lead magnet leads needs to.

Shannon Gaither:

I have to take a big deep breath because I feel like this is creating work for people. But your lead magnet needs to lead directly to your sales offer, and that's sometimes something we discover after the fact and sometimes that's okay, and it's okay to scrap a first lead magnet if it just totally is not in alignment anymore. It's important to make it about giving them the first step towards the result, and that result is your paid offer. So it's the first step toward a result that your paid offer will actually achieve. So once you're clear on your offer, you know what you're helping people do and in what time frame, and then you can back up and say, like what would someone need to know, believe or do before they're actually ready to buy this? And then that answer becomes your lead magnet.

Carrie Saunders:

And that's a little tough for people to swallow.

Shannon Gaither:

I think sometimes.

Carrie Saunders:

No, I know, and I completely agree there because you know, we're told, you know, especially in the online course coach, you know course creator coach, you know service provider that you had to create that lead magnet first and I completely agree with you. There's a first initial lead magnets I created. I either need to go revise them or trash them because they weren't quite aligned with the offer. I ended up landing on myself and I think that even if you have created those and they're not quite aligned, I feel like the fact that you created them is good, just because you've gotten the experience, and it's okay, and then we should give ourselves permission to either revise it or or create new with something a bit more aligned yes, I mean, my first ones are not.

Shannon Gaither:

They were not aligned anymore, you know, not at all like I remember. I mean, I think I think I made a morning routine thing, like I don't know what I was thinking.

Shannon Gaither:

It's probably something you were dealing with at the time, you know exactly Lack of validation allows you to create, makes you create things that you're not necessarily going to use long term. But when you're a freebie and your offer align, then your funnel works so much better. You build trust and you guide them naturally towards the next step and it just becomes a natural next step as opposed to a big jump.

Carrie Saunders:

Right, right Makes a lot of sense. So when entrepreneurs are trying to build their first funnel, how can they overcome this tech overwhelm when setting up their first funnel? Because I know we can get really down in the weeds with the tech I know I have myself, even though I'm a tech person. So how do we help overcome them with that tech?

Shannon Gaither:

Yeah. So let's see, tech is one of the biggest reasons people don't build. They put off building a funnel or they don't build a funnel, they feel like they have to hire to do it and stuff. And but when you're thinking that's because, like, you hear these components like landing page, email, automations, checkout links and integrations and you go nope, and but try to simplify it, start with strategy, not the software Super important. I always say this in my course and everywhere. Really, that is one of the mistakes I see people make. They start with software, not strategy. And if you start with strategy, then you can go with the simplest platforms If possible. Stick with one platform and try to simplify the step steps a little bit. So like, if you're using like a kajabi, if you have a kajabi or a go high level or something like that, then build everything in the same thing the landing pages, emails, check out all those things. But uh, and that's because trying to duct tape five tools together is where people get stuck. So simplify your tools first and stick with strategy first. Then simplify your tools.

Shannon Gaither:

Choose the simplest tools you could build one step at a time. Don't try to write all your emails and design your pages and figure out all your automations in one sitting. Break it down. Just do day one. Day one, you could craft your opt-in page, build your opt-in page and then day two, you can write your first email. That's how you can do it without frying your brain, and also, don't try to invent everything from scratch. Use templates and checklists and go to somebody's whether it's mine or someone else's just use a roadmap that tells you exactly what to do and in what order, and ask for help. Ask for help? Yes, like I find that Sorry.

Shannon Gaither:

You know, I was going to say.

Carrie Saunders:

when you said ask for help, I'm like that's something we many times don't give ourselves permission to do as business owners, and so I think that's a really good point. I want to make sure people here go ask for help. There's other business owners that want to help.

Shannon Gaither:

I added a 45 minute strategy call to my offers because of that very reason. People wouldn't ask for help because they thought they needed to like sign up for a long coaching and I I added a 45 minute because sometimes people just need me to look at their landing page and figure out what's not, what's wrong, like what's what's or or what's the integration and help me fix this integration so you don't have to do it alone it totally makes sense and I I do remember when we started creating our first lead magnets, I did keep it simple.

Carrie Saunders:

I mean, I kept them just in my email service provider, only I didn't have it in some fancy funnel type of software or anything like that. So I think giving people permission to you know, use your email service provider, because that can typically do a funnel, a simple funnel, and just start there, so that you're starting simple.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, yeah, some people skip a fancy sales page and go straight to like a checkout page using Stripe. We'll set up a Stripe account and they'll just use the Stripe checkout. Or there's services that are small that are doing a really good job of this for people who aren't ready for the big solution. They don't need a website or anything yet. So that's like the Stan store, and there's companies out there that are making it really simple to set up offers, and I think it's important to just give yourself permission to keep it simple at first and let it be messy a little bit, like the goal isn't to build a perfect funnel, it's just to build one that's live and working and starting to make you money.

Carrie Saunders:

And right for sure, and I've seen people even use just a Google Doc like for basically their, their funnel, so like when you're listening and you're new to funnels, like it really can be that simple and they can be effective. I purchased from people with just a simple Google Doc before.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, I've seen high-end coaches sell their sales page is a Google and that's it. And in an application form or or just literally a checkout, and it's, that's it. Amazing, and so it is really can. It's really about what is the? What is the offer, how? When's the timeframe? What's the transformation? What you know? Do you really get what I'm? You know where I'm at and can you really help me get to where I'm trying to get? And if that is all there and that is all nailed in, you know the, just the messaging alone, I don't think that the format is going to sway as many people as we think it is.

Carrie Saunders:

I completely agree, because if you get the things right you were just talked about, you build trust, and trust is what creates the purchase.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes.

Carrie Saunders:

Yes. So then for listeners that are listening today and they want to, you know, either build their first sales funnel or they want to improve one of their sales processes. What are some quick wins they can do? What can they look at and what can they change and adjust?

Shannon Gaither:

Okay, let's see. I'd start with the headline. Look at your headline. Is your headline tight? Does it really talk about transformation? You could do that by like.

Shannon Gaither:

If you have a sales page, look at your sales page. If you don't and you don't have anything built yet look at your Instagram bio. Like, look where your people are getting their next step from you and make sure that that says something that is ideally like results focused. I love results focused headlines and so, instead of coaching program or online course, you know, make it. Create your first digital product in 30 days or book your first three clients with, even without a website. Doesn't that sound like so much better than than a coaching program? So just make it super clear and make sure that what you do and how you help them and, if possible, in what time frame, and then check your lead magnet alignment See if that is aligned.

Shannon Gaither:

So does your freebie actually attract someone who's actually ready for your paid offer? I mean, if your offer helps sell on etsy, for example, your freebie um shouldn't be about growing on instagram. You know, like we were talking about, like the first freebies we made, we're like not, not, not it not. Next. The next step wasn't natural. Think like natural next step, what is the natural next step? And if you're thinking backwards, like creating a freebie, after you think, what does somebody need to do? Think, believe, feel to be ready for this next step, for that to be the natural next step.

Shannon Gaither:

And then I would look at your CTAs. You know, make sure your CTA. Look at your CTA. Are you including them on like blog posts in your website? Are you including them in your emails? Are you putting them in your Instagram? How many times are you actually bringing it up? Do you feel like you're talking about it all the time? Or do you feel like you're talking about it here and there? Because people need to hear it a lot more than we think they do and they read a lot less of our stuff than we think they do. So it's okay to repeat and you know your CTAs and really make sure that you're you're continuing to put it out in the world and giving people the opportunity.

Shannon Gaither:

And then some other small wins let's see like you could reach out to warm, warm leads Like somebody who's replied to your Like you could reach out to warm leads Like somebody who's replied to your story. You could reach out to them. Or and just send like a friendly check, you know check-in message or something like hey, just wondering if you're still looking for help with this, here's a resource you know, use your voice. Use your voice or your face. If you're comfortable on video, record something. If you're not comfortable on video, record a video like an audio you know make.

Shannon Gaither:

I think that that's the fastest way to build trust. I don't think we do it, I don't think enough of us do that, take the time to do those methods, but it is the fastest way to build trust is to add video. And because we can like like I was thinking about this last night I was watching something and I was thinking about like how, how I got how into a few episodes into a show, how attached I'll get to certain characters. I'm like wow, that's so fast that I'm all of a sudden like vested in this person and I'm like it's just the power of video really. It's like you really do get connected to people and without that you can't build trust as fast.

Carrie Saunders:

Yeah, and I think it's video and storytelling, because, like storytelling comes through video and voice a lot better, so we connect people you know, better.

Carrie Saunders:

When we're doing this, you know we have the story behind it too, absolutely yes. Those are some really great tips and actually I feel like I need to go re-listen to them after, after this podcast is done, because I know there are some things that I definitely could be could improve on, especially the call to actions. Like I know that I'm not great at social media and putting those call to actions in all the time. Like I might do it maybe once or twice a month or so, or maybe once a week, I'm not quite sure, but I need to like actually assess and see how often am I doing this call to actions, because, as we talk about a lot on the podcast, you would need to guide the person to the next step because we're all busy, but if we have that nudge, that little guidance to that next step, we're more likely to follow it.

Carrie Saunders:

It's something I talk about and teach for website conversion, but sometimes doing it yourself is harder and you feel I feel like we need to also have the permission to to speak about our businesses and our and not feel ashamed, because I think some people are sometimes feel a little. They feel like they're they're like humble and they don't want to speak about it, but that's how we help people, that's how we serve people, is by telling people what we do and how we can help others, because we're actually doing a disservice by not offering our services.

Carrie Saunders:

It's something I have to tell myself a lot and I repeat, I have to tell myself more often than I probably should, but it is definitely true and I feel like entrepreneurs need to hear that we are here for a reason, we have these skills for a reason, we can help people, for a reason and we need. It's a disservice not to offer our services, not to be that helping guide.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, 100%. When you have the answers, you need to share that. Yes, I mean, if we can all work together to build each other's businesses up and help each other. We move so much faster together than we do apart, and so giving them that natural next step is in service of that right. Yes, that's so well said.

Carrie Saunders:

It totally is. Yeah. So, Shannon, I just have really enjoyed the conversation about funnels and how to make them better and all the things. So if somebody wants to learn a bit more about you, how you can help them, what would be some good resources or places to go, and we will be sure to put the links in the show notes too. So don't worry about if you're listening and you're like I don't know if I can remember that. You know we'll have them in the show notes too, but let us know a little bit more how we can connect more with you.

Shannon Gaither:

Yes, definitely my website. My website is shannongaithercom, and Gaither spelled gather with an I. That's the easiest way to do it, but of course they'll be in the show notes. But, and and my lead magnet is 100 digital product ideas that you can create and sell today. So it's, it's shannongaither forward, slash 100. It's really easy to remember, so that is the best way. And then also, just look me up on Instagram. Instagram is I'm looking to connect with people on Instagram. I'm always available in the DMs.

Carrie Saunders:

Well, and Shannon is always super friendly, as I'm sure you can tell by our conversation. She's just such a wonderful person who loves to help others, and hopefully all that comes across in the podcast episode, because I feel like I've been blessed to have fallen into your world and your circle the past year or so and I just see all the good that you do for others, so I really appreciate having you on our podcast.

Shannon Gaither:

Thank you so much. I'm so glad I got to be here with you and I appreciate the opportunity to get to have a long conversation with you for once. Like you know, yes, yes.

Carrie Saunders:

Thanks again, shannon. Thank you, what an awesome conversation with Shannon Gaither. I hope you're walking away with a clear understanding of what a sales funnel really is and how simple it can be to start building one that actually works for your business. From validating your offer to overcoming tech overwhelm, shannon shared so many golden nuggets that makes the sales process feel a lot less intimidating, even if you're just getting started. If this episode got your wheels turning and you're ready to start turning your ideas into income, be sure to check out the show notes for links with Shannon and learn more about her and her sales funnel lab. And if you're loving our e-commerce made easy podcast, I'd be so grateful if you hit that follow button and leave a quick review. It helps more business owners like you find the show and get the support they need. Thanks so much for tuning in and we will see you next week.